Sidney & Berne Davis Art Center hosts exhibit of incendiary works by artist James Massacci

This is Golf Coast Life Arts edition from WGCU I'm John Davis. Thanks for joining us. This month, the capital gallery of the Sidney and Berne Davis Arts Center and the Fort Myers Downtown River district is featuring an exhibition titled The Emotions of Everyday Life. It's a solo exhibit of works by self-described debate artist and fashion designer James Massacci. And this exhibit marks the single largest display of his art to date. He's developed something of a reputation as the bad boy of art because his works, while visually striking, are also confrontational and unapologetic. The messages in his works engage with and dismantle social constructs, challenge some of our assumptions, and force us to more fully confront uncomfortable truths about the broader impacts of our own actions or inactions. And much like the culture of hip hop, which misogyny embraces, his art is truthful, raw and graphic, and his work has caught the attention and fascination of major names in the hip hop world. He's done pieces for musicians including Florida and Killer Mike from Run the Jewels. His pieces are now in private collections and galleries all over the country and internationally. He's also the founder and head designer at Massacci Art incorporated, where he produces wearable art in the form of men's and women's apparel, as well as suitcases, duffel bags, backpacks, sling packs, handbags and purses. The brand emphasizes vibrant colors, graphic imagery, and eye catching patterns. It's really an extension of his work as a painter and mixed media artist. James Massacci, welcome to Gulf Coast Life Arts edition. Thank you John. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate you having me on. Thank you. Yeah, I'd love to. Just kind of start at the beginning. I know you grew up in Warren, a town in northeast Ohio. This was well before beginning your artist career. But can you tell me a little bit about growing up in Warren? Just because in the past, I know you've credited that experience as as a source of inspiration in your work. Yeah, for for sure. Growing up in Warren was definitely an experience. When I was first growing up and I was younger, the steel mills were really popular. You know, obviously it was that whole steel era, but around 85, 86, the the economy in the steel started to decline. And so because of that, I think, I think the population where I grew up was maybe about 70,000. When I was growing up, now I think it's like 30,000. We get compared. Unfortunately we we do get compared to Gary, Indiana a lot. You know, just a depressed steel mill area. And at the same time that the steel stopped, crack cocaine came into the city. So you can imagine, you know, the financial strains, the depression, and then you have something so dangerous and so addictive to, you know, to add to the fuel to the fire, so to speak. And it was really a sort of a juxtaposition, young life being being a white guy and going to a predominantly all black school. You really I understand racism and things differently than probably most people because I was the minority. And you left that area kind of right out of high school, right? Correct. Yeah. Shortly after high school, I moved out to Las Vegas and I spent about eight years out there. I got involved in business opportunity and I was able to sell that business. And after that, I moved to South Florida. And when you came to Florida, you were flipping houses. I mean, I mean, the art business, the art career still really hadn't started. Tell me about how that even began. How did you start making art and why? So I started to make art because I didn't like the stuff that I saw. You know, I mean, there's a lot of hotel art out there, and it's really cool art. It's like I'm not taking anything away from that. But I just started to make things for my own walls in my home. And then about 2000 and I can't tell you maybe 15, 16 somewhere around there. A friend of mine was driving from Tampa to Miami and Punta Gorda, where I was living at the time, is about halfway. So he called me and said, hey, can we stop and take a little pit stop, get a beer or whatever? I said, sure, and the guy that was with him was a famous art dealer, and I didn't know that. In fact, my friend didn't even know that. But he asked me, who did these pieces in your house? And I said, oh, I did. And he took some pictures with his cell phone and never really said anything else. And about four weeks later, I had a contract from a gallery in Miami to start representing me as an artist. Wow. And so, I mean, I've heard you say, even like when that initially happened, you thought it might even be a practical joke. You didn't. You still didn't see where this was going. Yeah. I thought I was getting punked because I didn't I had. First of all, I didn't really even know what I did was considered art, per se. You know, like when when I was just doing it for myself. I didn't really know that that that art is really what you can get away with. But more important, now that I understand, art is necessary. Yeah, yeah. You know, not having done that conventional a to be trajectory of, you know, getting professional training and art school, some might consider that a hurdle to overcome. But with you it seems like it's actually a strength. I would agree with that. I think not having a guide to follow allowed me to be really true to the visions and to the thoughts and things that I wanted to capture on my own. Maybe if I would have had like formal training or something like that, I may have been more hesitant to do that because like a more, more purist, like someone who went to traditional art school and, and all that, they I feel that they stay a lot more in the confines of what people think art is and isn't. And you know so much. Oh I'm sorry. You were going to say something else. No, no. So you know you have again this reputation is kind of being the bad boy of art. And I understand that may have begun with works that you had done or a single work depicting the face of Pablo Escobar. Colombian expats were less than enthused. Tell me about that. Yeah. So I had a show in Miami, and I made these huge Pablo Escobar faces, and some Colombian people came there and they were extremely angry with me. And and, you know, when you're making art and you see what you see in that piece of art, you really have to remove yourself and stand back and think, okay, why are these people really upset? And, you know, so I talked to him, you know, I said, well, you know what's what, you know, what's the issue here? And, you know, then they further explained that their family was the recipients of his violence. And, and so we got to learn a lot about each other. And ultimately, I told them that the reason why I did the pieces is because for a guy to be in the jungle of Colombia and to make money like Bill gates, even though he was a sociopath and psychopath, he was so intelligent. It was unbelievable, like how you put the roots together and how you, you know, how you you smuggle and everything like that takes a lot of intelligence. Now, you know, everyone says the same thing. Oh, if you would have just, you know, put his efforts towards inventing something or this or that or, you know, but it doesn't really work that way when you're when you're a street guy and you kind of grow up in the street, you don't really have the vernacular for business people. You don't you don't have the degrees or you don't have the the legal. Let me say this. You don't have the legal right sometimes to get paid. That's where the schooling comes in. So although he was super smart and rich and everything else, I don't think he could have really done anything else. I don't think he would have been as accepted anywhere else or done anything else. And so I thought that that was a very unique thing. And once they understood why I made them and I understood why they were mad, you know, they left friends with me. So. So was that kind of an early window into, you know, what you, I would guess now understand to be the power of art when it is provocative and its ability to generate dialog, even on really contentious topics, because that's so much of what you do, and I think I'd love it. Thank you so much. Yeah. You know, it's kind of funny because I say, well, in my last show, I said, if art imitates life, you can consider this show a mirror because, you know, you turn on the news and it's mostly violent. Most of the popular films that we watch are violent. And I always say, you can put a gun on canvas and people are going to be so upset, but then you'll watch The Godfather or Pulp Fiction, and it's so cool. And I and I really couldn't figure that out for the longest time. And it's my opinion that when you're staring at a controversial art piece, there's not another scene coming to save you, like in a movie. You know, someone gets killed and they're at a nice party, or there's a pretty girl, you know, whatever. So. So you kind of see the violence, but then you're instantly brought back into, like, a happy emotion, where with my art, there's nothing really coming to save you. So you have to debate with yourself or you have to debate with me. You know, in terms of this specific exhibition at the Sidney and Berne, tell me why you chose the title The Emotions of Everyday Life, because personally, I felt like the title of the exhibit really didn't prepare me for the experience. I think that was actually part of it. I didn't want it to be. I didn't want the title of the show to be too bold and give too much away. Right. But if you if you watch anything that goes on day to day, those are really the emotions of everyday life violence, guns, people in prison for profit. You know, I think I had 20 I think I have 28 pieces there at the Sydney and Burn, and I think 7 or 8 of them have firearms in them. And that's because firearms are more prevalent in our day to day life than pencils. Yeah. Is there one piece in the exhibition that you think best represents the show as a whole? And if that's a bad question, you can just say pass. No, I mean. I don't know, maybe the best friends piece with the little girl in the dog and the little boy dressed up as a cowboy with his toy gun hiding behind the ice machine. And then you have the Ice soldier kind of walking away. That piece, I feel, is really the emotions of everyday life for a lot of people, for a lot of different reasons. If you don't if you don't know certain ethnic groups, then the only thing you know about them is what the news tells you. And the same goes the other way. There are really violent criminals in our country that are here illegally that really shouldn't be here. So, so, you know, I guess the nuances of it all are gone because, you know, you have to I guess it has to be black and white for them. There's I mean, most of my friends are really mixed ethnicities and there's some of the most wonderful humans on planet Earth. I've learned so much from them. So but it goes both ways. I can understand both sides of it, and I see both sides of it. But I don't agree with the tactics. I don't agree with the children being separated from their families. I don't agree with that stuff. But I also understand that that I let me say it like this. If I took my wife and kid into Mexico illegally and they found me and said, you're not a citizen, you have to go back. How can I be upset with that? I understand that. Yeah, yeah. You know, you deal with so many issues and controversial issues, you know, consumer culture, toxic norms of masculinity and femininity, prisons for profit, the lottery. How do you decide which current events or cultural issues you're going to engage with in your pieces, or is that not even really a decision you have to make? It's part of, again, what you're thinking about every day. Emotions of every life. Yeah. It's not something I have to think about. I don't I don't have to look for inspiration or content. It's all provided to me just through every day experiences. Because I see like life through this really small angle. It's like a fractal angle. Maybe the easier way to say it would be you have a thick piece of cake, but the thin little layer in between is what holds it together. And so I'm able to see life in that thin layer. And that's sort of where I draw from. It's always like the CD underbelly of what's really going on. Yeah. You know, we were talking about, you know, some of the extreme reactions you've gotten to your work. And on that topic, I wanted to bring up a piece that I don't think is in the show, but it's, it's a, it's a scene from Pulp Fiction, the film you mentioned earlier, except John Travolta and Samuel Jackson's characters are President Trump and Elon Musk. You actually sent this to the president and got a really lovely response from the white House. Can you tell me about that and why you did that? Yeah. So pop like pop artist or like street artists, a lot of them do either Marilyn Monroe's Elvis or that piece. I've seen it with, like, bananas. I've seen it where they both had, like the stormtrooper masks on, and I kind of stay away from those, like, I'm like, I'm not going to go that route, you know, and do that. But I when I saw the when I saw it in my head, I'm like, oh, this is going to be epic. So I made ten of them and I numbered the fronts and I sold nine of them. And then number ten of ten, I wrapped it like so obscurely, like a bomb. I mean, they had to open it. I'm probably on some list, but I wrapped it like a bomb in a, you know, they opened it and they gave it to him. And I did get a letter from the white House, which was kind of crazy, personally, from Trump. It was it was pretty cool. I mean, not not that I agree with with how he runs things or some of his choices, but to be acknowledged by the president was was pretty awesome. Yeah. Do you think he maybe missed the mark a little bit in terms of what the piece was about? I don't know, because art is left up to interpretation. What am I very first show? A guy sold a piece of art next to me for about. I think it was like ten grand, and I was like, wow, I can't believe that guy just sold that for ten grand. And the people left it up in the show up till Sunday. And when they came back to pick it up, they asked him, and I'm like, packing my stuff up and, you know, but I'm listening. And they wanted to know what he thought of the piece of art. And when he explained it in detail, I could see their faces just sinking. They were mortified. And so I've learned to to put the piece out there with some general information and then let you decide what it means to you. Yeah. Well, I can't believe we're coming up on the end of our time, but there's a piece I needed to ask you about in this show called Just Depends on the Day. And this draws from that famous image from Associated Press photojournalist Eddie Adams called Saigon Execution. You know, I think it's an image everybody knows. But can you tell me about this piece and the message behind it? Yeah, it's it's called just depends on the day. And if you notice on the piece of art, there's three people in the piece of art, you have a witness, you have a shooter, and you have the guy getting executed. And on any given day, it's kind of that way in your own life. You have nothing to do with happening right now. So you're just a witness, you're the aggressor, or you're the poor person getting done in. Yeah, it's a really powerful piece. Well, you know, as you know, we're living in this time where public discourse feels so polarized. What unique role do you think visual art can play in helping people engage with ideas they might otherwise avoid? That's a great question, John. I feel like it probably rotates back to kind of what I said about interpretation and being like being like debating about art, because what I try to do when you look at my art, you're not really sure from pro-gun or anti-gun as the artist. I don't want to lean one way or the other in the description. I just want to put the art out there and then let you see what you think about it. And I had two. This is kind of crazy. I had two extreme reactions at the show. A couple people were crying, visually crying and physically crying. I mean, and one lady came up to me and she said, I just want you to know that I think this is some of the most awful art I've ever seen. And I said, ma'am, I really appreciate your opinion. I said, can I can I ask you, why do you why is it awful? And then I said, wait before you answer me, is it awful because it's truthful, or is it awful because I'm lying? And she said, you got me there. Wow. Wow. That's really impactful reaction. Unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. Well, this is maybe getting a little outside of it, but I'm curious about how the whole fashion line and, you know, creating wearable arts came into your, you know, growing and expanding artistic practice. I think a lot of people just like, you know, friends of mine who saw the art and stuff, they're like, man, you should put that on a t shirt. You should put that on a t shirt. You know, you hear that a lot. And so I said, okay, yeah, let me see in the old way that, you know, you used to be able to have to do it is you would have to buy like a, a lot of 144 items, you know, Small's large, as you know. And then if people don't buy those, you're just sitting on them. So when once I learned that, you know, there were some websites and things that I could do to sort of reduce my upfront costs, I said, well, maybe I should really look into this. And I love making patterns like my dresses and stuff and my purses. A lot of women really do like write me and say, man, these patterns are awesome. Like, I have some patterns. I'm sure that if if it said Gucci or anything like that, it would be so expensive because I put a lot of thought into it. I don't use AI and not I'm not knocking anyone who does, but I don't use AI to make my patterns. I don't I don't use AI for any of my artwork actually. So I think the pattern thing is, is just I really just enjoy it. I like creating the repetition, you know? So once again, once I realized that I didn't have to buy so much upfront stock to be able to launch sort of a boutique type brand, I was all in. All right. Yeah, I mean, I got to tell you, there's there's one backpack in particular. It's this like, like opposing colors of the paisley print and I've got my eye on it. So just so you know, I'm probably going to. Get that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Okay. Well and oh, I wanted to go back to something that we had talked about before. The mix went hot, and that was a piece that you had done, a piece that you had done of, you know, the 1980s cocaine Queen Pin of Miami. And now that piece hangs in the home of her son, who has become a friend of yours. Just tell us that story. It's so fascinating. So I did the piece of Griselda and her son, Michael. You know, I did it because I was like. I was just impressed with the whole story. How she was and how he grew up was kind of sad. And and there's probably some similarities between how he grew up and how I grew up in some ways. And so I did the piece, and I sat on it for about a year because I didn't know how to get Ahold of him. And I met a guy in Los Angeles and he said, you know, I know Michael, and, you know, I could probably hook you up with them at some point. Well, probably three months after that, I got a call and he said, Michael is going to be Michael Blanco is going to be on Drink Champs in Miami on Friday. So I hurry up. I wrapped the piece, I shipped it, I flew down and it was rain. I'll never forget it was raining real bad that night and I came busting in to drink Champs Studio, you know, and there's guns, odors and you know, who are you, man? Like, because he has he has a lot of security, you know, because of his situation. But I ended up giving him the piece and he physically tears started streaming down his face. And he had a picture of his mom on his shirt, which was like a silhouette. And the piece I did was kind of a silhouette. So he gave me actually the shirt off his back that night. And in the beginning of the night when I first met him, he gave me his manager's number. But then by the end of the night he said, here's my cell phone number, you know, let's talk. You know, you come back to Miami, hit me up, and we we talk pretty much daily. If not, you know, I mean, there might be a couple of days ago by. But he's a really, really good dude. He's helped me a lot with my career in terms of exposure. And I'm really it's a real blessing to have him as a friend. Wonderful. That's awesome. Well, we've been speaking great. We've been speaking today with artist and fashion designer James Massacci An exhibition of his works titled The Emotions of Everyday Life, is at the Sidney and Berne Davis Art center through July 30th. Check out more about his work at James. James, again, thank you so much. Thank you John, I appreciate it. Thank you again for having me on. I was so thankful to be here. Thank you. And for now, thanks for listening. This is WGCU-FM Fort Myers 90.1 WMKO Marco Island 91.7 FM, NPR for Southwest Florida.